A letter arrived...
Read 'em both here!
Without further delay... here it is (slightly edited of course):
During the war, Lincoln overheard someone remark that he hoped "the Lord was on the Union's side." Lincoln responded with this sharp rebuke:
I am not at all concerned about that, for I know that the Lord is always on the side of the right. But it is my constant anxiety and prayer that I and this nation should be on the Lord's side.
Hello Dear Saints, Brothers and Sisters in the Family of God!
Our hearts have been lately stirred up for you all, feeling for you the anguish of misunderstandings, persecutions, and trials you have each had to endure (or watch your loved ones endure).
Our hope and prayer for you during this tough time is multi-fold: that your hearts would rise above any trivialities, that your minds would be delivered from any erroneous lines of thought, that you would be given hearts of compassion and grace, that you would feel deep and unmistakably-given-by-the-Lord LOVE for those who hurt you, that you would be endowed with wisdom to know the right ways to act and react, and that you would seek not for the Lord to be on your side - but to be on the side of our Lord.
The way *Miroslav's father* is being treated currently by many NHers - this has brought so much back my mind of what we went through when we left NH. Now we suffered a mild case of the NH Blues, compared to the sufferings others have experienced for years and years before us and compared with what *Miroslav's father* and family are currently suffering. NH has a long, long history - back into the 1970’s with the Local Church, as far as we know, maybe farther back? -- of painting people who disagreed with leadership on one issue or another (or those who left the church) with The Ugly Brush - making them appear to have had “problems with authority,” or like they have walked away from the Lord, or worse.
Understandably, many of you ex-NHers are in an uproar over the way *Miroslav's father* has been cut off. Obviously, his situation is much more black-and-white than ours was and it seems he will go down in the books as one of the all-time “biggies” in NH History. However, we know that it is easy to miss the forest for the trees. Our fear is that the current “trees” of this situation (lies being told about him, an unreasonable excommunication, dirt you recently heard about actions or words of so-and-so or what’s-his-name, and whatever sufferings you are personally experiencing) will keep you from seeing what we see as at least one big portion of The Forest -- a rigid ideology stemming from the Local Church, full of isolationism, exclusivism, and the thought that it is good and right to cut off those who are acting in a way you deem as wrong.
This part of the Forest is a must-see. You must see it, first so that you can realize what part you have taken in it….if you can see this, you will be filled with grace and forgiveness for those hurting you right now. He who has been forgiven much loves much! He who knows how easy it is to be caught in a dangerous way of thinking can have mercy on others caught in that way. My hope is that you will be given a heart of compassion for those that are still bearing the yoke of misguided “social” theology. Some of our brothers and sisters at NH have been taught erroneous ways of dealing with differences of opinion, mistakes, and even outright sin. Just as I myself could see more and more clearly the farther I got from NH, I feel sadly for the dear folks whose eyes are clouded with misguided information and advice. I am sure you can also attest to the clearer thinking that distance brings.
The other important reason not to miss this part of the forest for the trees is so that you may guard yourself from taking this ideology with you. It would be so easy right now to hang on tightly to this dangerous way of treating other believers by simply turning it around back on those still at NH - painting anyone who is thinking wrongly with that same old Ugly Brush, making people who are wrong (or have been misinformed) out to be the bad guys instead of seeing them as fellow believers who are wrong and misguided.
Abraham Lincoln once suggested that the important question was not who’s side God was on, but who would be on God’s side. May you each personally fight to be as fully on His side in all things possible. Certainly, each of you will have different issues of right and wrong to which the Lord has quickened your heart; these are battles you must face in the human realm. Yet you mustn’t fight only battles of men, for they matter not in the end. You must realize that some of the men on the other side of your battle line - even if you are convinced they are in the wrong - are still on the Lord’s side. Don’t allow the old ways of thinking to give you an excuse to treat your Christian brothers and sisters badly, even if they have done this very thing to you.
The grace of God works mightily through us even when we are misguided, wrong, and yes, even sinful. Although sometimes the consequences fit the crime, other times it rains on the righteous and the unrighteous. God doesn’t ask us to figure it all out, but he does ask us to react certain ways. I pray that as you stand up for truth you will still be a person who is loving, kind, humble, gentle, patient, forgiving, with a heart of compassion (Colossians 3:8-14)
I just hope and pray that the group of ex-NHers that is currently feeling the pain for the mistreatment *Miroslav's father* and his family are undergoing - that they will be given gracious hearts, hearts that can remember they were not-so-long-ago caught under the same spell, hearts full of love and compassion and patience!Love, Anonymous
Anonymous,
As I read this letter, a couple of things jumped out at me...
1) Promptly after Lincoln made the quote that you've referenced, he did his best to help the Union go out and KILL those who disagreed with them, the confederates. Though his very real "anxiety and prayer" to God was something with which he wrestled, he was also forced in to action here in the realm of flesh and blood by his convictions and the actions of others. In light of these things, I believe Lincoln's quote speaks much more to how we interact with God than how we interact with one another. In other words, the man who hopes the Lord [is on their] side" hopes in error... he should instead hope, and pray that he finds the Lord's side. That is an internal struggle.
2) Another quote came to mind from something I had read that suggested a human tendency to over-correct after a mistake has been made. For the life of me, I can't remember who wrote it or where I read it... but I'll try to paraphrase here with a warning that I may butcher the specific wording (if anybody recognizes the quote, please chime in!): "History has shown us again and again that mankind will in deed fall off the horse of reason from time to time. The most disconcerting thing about it, however, is not simply that we fall off the horse to the left, but that we get promptly get right back on the horse only to fall off to the RIGHT!" ... I bring that up in response to this letter because it seems to me that we fell off the horse to the left in mistakes in allowing the cult like mentality at NH ("isolationism and exclusivism") and I would suggest you are falling off the right with your suggestion that cutting off intimate fellowship with specific people for specific reasons equates to using the "same old Ugly Brush." For though I do not deny that it is possible to fall in to the same trap of arrogant spirituality that caused us to fall to the left and that we must in fact be alert against such a mistake, we are not doomed to repeat our past if we remain guarded against doing so. Furthermore, we must not allow our past mistakes to prevent us from making intelligent decisions in the future. Otherwise, we will make the same mistakes that we witness occurring in our country today... where a very real history of racism leads to ridiculous political correctness, a history of sexism leads to leaving our boys behind in the educational system, a history of classism leads taxing the hard working to give to the lazy, and past failures by way of heartless nationalism leads to unenforcable borders. My point being, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater... thats what I think you are doing here.
Your letter encourages empathy, love, and patience... reminding those that have left the church to remember that the mistakes being made by those still there are done without malice. You also encourage those that left to remember there own shortcomings and to act, therefore, with humility. All of the admonitions listed above are heart issues. Just as Lincoln's conscience sought to find the Lord's will for his life with fear and trembling, so too should those who have left pursue our course of action if they are to be in line with the Bible. Anybody who would ignore such advice is certainly making a horrendous mistake.
I think you go too far, however, in suggesting that it is always unethical or un-Biblical to "cut off those who are acting in a way you deem as wrong." If you are willing to make that broad of a statement, I think a believer will lose the power of their own conviction to stand against what they believe to be wrong. It is here that reason and the conscience of each individual is to be honored and valued else both are at risk of being lost. Of course, we have seen the opposite to pose an equal threat to an individual believer's own convictions. When people are coerced and manipulated, whether socially or in the name of authority, to abandon their own heart felt convictions, they are left as pawns fighting the coercer's or manipulator's war of consious.
Too vague? Let me try to bring it to a point...
The Bible clearly says that the church should not divide itself because of "doubtful disputations." And by context we find that the verse is referring to issues of the faith such as diet and tradition. The Bible also outlines times that demand nothing less than formal church discipline (and said discipline does include commandments to "not break bread" with those under discipline). That which is found in the middle of these two clear commandments is the gray area that we are left to navigate ourselves.
It is my believe that some measure of each of the above-referenced commandments be followed commenserate with the level of conviction we have concerning disagreements between one another. To give some examples:
Example One:
I find it completely reasonable to share friendship and intimate vulnerable conversation with somebody who does not share the same beliefs as I do concerning predestination. On the other hand, I would be more guarded about my heart's vulnerable issues with somebody who held the belief that all men on the earth had it within them to
become gods, even if this person claimed to be a Christian.
Another friend of mine may not draw the line in the same place, choosing to open his heart to both men. But I am no more or less expressing love, patience, or any good virtue by my decision to keep this person at arms length.
Example Two:
I have a friend who will often times come across too strongly in conversation. They are argumentative at the drop of a hat and seem unwilling to back down from a fight even when they are convinced they are wrong. With that said, I also find many other redeeming qualities in our relationship that outweigh these things and so I choose to put my whole heart on the line in our interactions with one another.
Another friend of mine is as mellow mannered as they come. They have hardly anything to say when we talk and always seem agreeable to just about anything. But I have also learned over time that this person is quite different when I'm not arround. Behind my back, they speak poorly of me and mock me. I've confronted the person on the issue, but there has been no change over the years. Unfortunately, this person is family... so I don't even have the option to completely steer clear of them. If I had that liberty, I would probably excercise it! Instead, since we are forced to see one another at family functions and such, I do my best to keep from saying much of anything of substance around the person.
My uncle has had the exact same experience with both the argumentative person and the back-stabbing person, yet he chooses to avoid conversation with the former, while continuing on in vulnerable relationship with the later. My decision to distance myself from the back-stabber does not make me any less empathetic or caring. Our battlines of conscience (mine and my uncles) are simply drawn in different places.
As a seperate point, I believe that your letter does not reflect the empathy that is suggested to be a key failure of those who feel differently on the subject. I think it is far too easy to criticize those who have been deeply betrayed and wounded from afar. Perhaps a stroll in their shoes would reveal a new level of understanding. And please, think earnestly here...
What would you have to say to the Two-Faced Man who held your spouse as "marked", publicly called him/her dangerous, and warned others to stear clear of him/her? What to say to him after all had been said on the subject and all arguments had been fleshed out to their bitter end finding nothing but differing stances on the issue? Would you so readily embrace him and call him friend? Would you be readily available to share a warm hug and "How do you do?" I do not think you would, nor should.
But neither would I think that your decision would necessarily reflect that you were being unloving, unempathetic, or painting him with the Ugly Brush. Certainly it could be all or some of those things... but who can see another's heart? Can't you love this Two-Faced Man, empathize with him, and hope all good things for him (even following Colossians 3:8-14) ... all while being unwilling to entertain him as casual company? I say YES.
I believe it to be very healthy to say to somebody, "Friend, I love you and we have enjoyed some good years of friendship... but for now, this issue drives too far a wedge between us to ignore. Lets just put it all on the table and identify what it is. Maybe sometime down the road one of us will come to another conclusion on the issue, but for now... I simply cannot be close without pretending... and I'm not willing to do that with this matter."
To summarize, I would suggest that refusing intimate friendship with one whom you have strong disagreements with and/or one who knowingly continues to hurt you (even if well-intentioned)... can be done with a heart that is still faithful to the commands in Scripture.Additionally, I believe not doing drawing such lines can be irresponsible to your own personal well-being. Specifically (besides the obvious risk of pain that you open yourself up to), failing to do so risks sacrificing your convictions, can destroys the concept of good and honest friendship, and betrays your consious. It must take the opportunity here to say that I also believe being pursuaded to withdraw from a relationship apart from your own convictions, whether the pursuasion come from social influence or church authority, is equally dangerous for all of the same reasons.
With all of that said, and as passionately as I believe it to be a balanced and true approach...
As much as it may bother me from time to time, I must also allow others to follow their concsious on these issues even when they differ from mine, including family and loved ones! My wife may choose to ignore some issues to me that are non-negotiables. My uncle may cut his conversations short with people I choose to embrace fully. But, while not avoiding discussion about it, we must find room to allow one another to follow our convictions or risk destroying our individual ability to reason for ourselves.Much luv, Miroslav
10 Comments:
I am sorry if I made it sound like “painting with the Ugly Brush” was equal to “cutting off intimate fellowship.” I do not see them as the same thing, and in NO WAY am I suggesting that it is wrong to cut off intimate fellowship with someone who has hurt you (but I would make a distinction between “cutting off intimate fellowship with someone” and simply “cutting someone off,” if that makes sense.)
If you take the strongest scripture on how to treat a believer who is in indisputable sin, they say to treat him “as an unbeliever.” Do any of us think it is right to tell an unbeliever we cannot talk to them because they are unbelievers (or that we cannot or should not care for their well-being)? I see the proper biblical response to an unbeliever as one of love and concern, being anxious for their repentance, and hoping to win them to Jesus. This could even include STRONG words of continuous calling them to repentance – every chance you get.
I think it would be UNWISE to be unequally-yoked to an unbeliever – and equally UNWISE to be in an “intimate” friendship with a believer whom you think is in sin.
I think NH, way back in its roots, has practiced the art of Shunning (even though I have heard them preach against it), taking “treating one as an unbeliever” to an unbiblical extreme. Not talking to someone, not being able to go to a social function where someone in the wrong is present, not calling up someone who is going through a major life change to express your hopefulness -- these are acts of shunning, in my definition.
You are correct in your estimation that my main concern is with matters of the unseen heart. Because I cannot see inside the hearts of men, I must (and do) withhold judgment. Yet I am compelled to bring a call for men to look inside their own hearts and judge themselves:
Do you love your enemies?
Do you pray for those who persecute you?
Do you earnestly desire the godly success and blessing upon those who have hurt you the worst?
Can you trust the Lord to judge the hearts of men, and deal with them on His timetable?
I can only pose questions to consider, and trust that the Lord will bring either conviction or release…
Anonymous
P.S. Killing was part of Lincoln’s necessary plan of success. However, he did not kill Confederates for the ultimate goal of seeing them decimated, but rather for the survival of his very country – and for what he believed was the ultimate good for the Confederates. Many of you will have to do “damage” in your fight for truth. May that damage be done for the greater good of God’s Kingdom, and with love in your hearts for all parties involved.
From "As Good As It Gets" (1997)
http://www.awesomefilm.com/script/asitgets.txt
Starring Jack Nicholson and Helen Hunt (Oscar-winning performance as Carol Connelly):
BEVERLY
You're not still writing that thank-you note?
CAROL
I'm on the last page. How do you spell conscience?
BEVERLY
C-o-n-s-c-i-e-n-c-e.
CAROL
This can't be right. Con. Science?
***
What does excommunication officially mean in a church like NH?
Here is my understanding of what it means in Lutheranism.
Communion is withheld until you are penitent.
You can come to church, and hear the sermons, and participate in the prayers, and the call-response, and sing God's praises, and attend bible class.
But the cup of forgiveness is withheld, because it is also the cup of judgement, and taking it in an unworthy manner is spiritually harmful.
I have heard that the Amish practice "shunning" until you are penitent. I think it means they won't talk to you.
***
I had programmed the VCR to tape my show, but it was pre-empted by part 2 of the Jon Voigt TV movie about the pope. Since I had it on tape, I watched it.
The guy who shot him, in the failed assassination attempt. The pope visited him in prison:
POPE
Have you prayed for me? I have prayed for you. Come, let's pray. [They pray together.]
Actually, the strongest NT scripture on how to treat a believer who is in indisputable sin is found in 11 Timothy 3...
"Have nothing to do with them."
It is rarely, but sometimes the most powerful and hopeful action one must take.
1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.
Does that Timothy passage mean "them" collectively, i.e. have nothing to do with them as a community, or does it additionally mean "them" as individuals, i.e. have nothing to do with any one of them?
Do a word study on the word "terrible" and you will only find it used one other time in the NT...( a very exclusive word God used to warn us)
People can mean a group of, or an individual.
But obviously, the more, the terribler!
ter-a-bel-er: Greek word meaning, more terrible.
I just can't apply those verses in 2 Tim 3 to a group of people I KNOW to be children of God...I'll look into it more, but my first thought is that the Church in Corinthians was pretty jacked up, and definitly could have check-marked more than one of those attributes...yet Paul did not "have nothing to do with them," but instead taught them right from wrong.
I think it is very interesting that the verses right before 2 Tim 3 are verses the Lord happened to "give" me when a gal from this same church being spoken of in Miroslav's story was coming over to tell me she couldn't be my friend anymore. I think they apply to this situation as well, what do you think?
Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. 24 And the Lord's servant [4] must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, 25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.
The verses in II Timothy can only mean brethren. To apply it the the unsaved would suggest that we no longer attempt to bring the message of freedom and forgiveness from the exact sins that once held us all in bondage. This is why "There will be terrible times in the last days...." The unsaved have always acted in such manner.
It is "terrible" because the hearts of many of the beloved will wax cold in the last days.
Terrible.
Anonymous,
We agree on most points. I think the key disagreement between us is in the gray areas that lay between serious and horrendous sins and foolish ignorant controversies.
I am suggesting that the bible, and logic, allow for various levels of shunning (as you’ve outlined it) according to an individual’s convictions. Surely you would agree that it is acceptable to refuse to talk to somebody, stay away from social events where they are present, and limit your communication with a person who has committed a serious atrocity against your family (like sexual abuse or something). About fifteen clicks less severe, take somebody who has cursed and screamed at my wife in public… and never apologized. That person doesn’t get a Christmas present from us that year, nor a hug at family events. I wouldn’t sit and chat with that person about the weather or the local basketball team. We would not be “cool” with each other until the issue at hand was addressed and an apology was made. And that wouldn’t be any type of “punishment” that I’d be inflicting. I wouldn’t hate the person. It would even be possible that I still loved them. My decision to hold them at arms length until the issue was resolved between us would simply be what I referred to as a “battle line of conscience” in my response to your original letter. Holding to my convictions and carrying them out to their reasonable ends does not make me any less loving or graceful.
I think this core disagreement between us shows up fairly obviously in this sentence pulled from your original letter: “Don’t allow the old ways of thinking to give you an excuse to treat your Christian brothers and sisters badly, even if they have done this very thing to you.” It appears that your definition of treating them “badly” is not talking to them and holding them at arms length. I believe that you are making a mistake in judging those actions to be evidence of a poor heart condition. I again make the claim that one can have a heart full of love, grace, and compassion and choose to hold to their battle lines of conscience in keeping themselves apart from interaction with another, either for “serious sin” issues or less horrible, moderately important disagreement issues. That is one of life’s liberties… and can be supported by Scripture as well.
“Do you earnestly desire the godly success and blessing upon those who have hurt you the worst?” … I personally think this is quite an unreasonable question. I assume that you are taking this from the teachings in Matthew 5 (which I believe addresses the heart issues of love vs. hate but does not encourage us to hope for “godly success and blessing” for our enemies [apart, perhaps, from their repentance]) and maybe Proverbs 25 which could hardly be called earnest. The question reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend one day over lunch. This friend of mine would take the teachings of Christ regarding turning the other cheek, going the extra mile, and giving a thief your tunic also to a ridiculous extent. As I pressed him on his interpretation of these teachings, he admitted to me that he could not biblically find reason to defend himself or his wife against a physical assault, a robber breaking in to his house in the middle of the night, or even rape. … Was David in sin when he shouted to God to carry out justice with Saul? He certainly did not pray for success and blessing for Saul much in the Psalms.
One thing I forgot to address in my first response to you… in your original letter you wrote, “he who has been forgiven much loves much.” You then took that verse and pressed its meaning to say that he who has forgiven much loves and gives grace to other sinners much… even those that hurt him. Your point is not such a horrible idea, but the statement that Jesus made that you quote from had nothing to do with that issue at all. Rather, he was pointing out to his disciple Simon (and making a point publicly as an accusation against the quick to judge Pharisees) that the tremendous amount of love that the forgiven woman was evidence to Jesus that much had been forgiven.
D. Porta,
Got yer hint on the spelling. Forgot to run the ol' spell checker. DOH!
In regards to your question about Excommunication at NH, in my experience it was only used as a last resort in situations where a congregant has chosen not to repent of an ongoing harmful "serious" sinful act. All the ones that I can remember had to do with sexual sin. The excommunication included a public announcement and teaching on the subject along with an admonition to the congregation to love the person, but to make sure every interaction with the person from that point forward pointed them towards repentance. Specifics were never given. (All of this took place on Sunday AM, ... I seem to remember at least once it was done as part of the normal service, but most times it was afterwards with members only.) To the best of my knowledge, the excommunicated person was no longer welcome to come to any church functions until they had repented of their ways. I believe the "proof" of this repentance had to be approved by the elders/pastors. 1 Corinthians 5:1-13 was always used to explain the reason for the excommunication. But all of that is just answering your question, not really the topic of this letter.
When you refer to the Amish practice of shunning, that is definately MUCH more extreme than anything I experienced at NH. I remember watching a documentary on their practice of shunning and it was pretty scary how far they carried things out. NH’s practice of excommunication (or general church culture) was nothing like that.
Interesting story about the Pope. I think that if his actions were genuine, that they were quite noble. Reminds me of a story I read in the Reader’s Digest about a mother who’s son had been killed by a drunk driver. Not only did she forgive the offender… she also helped him find a job afterwards and helped rehabilitate him… ultimately becoming friends with the man and praying with him on a regular basis. They ultimately started a ministry together surrounding the issue of drunk driving. She did a very noble, difficult thing to be sure. However, I would not go so far as to say that type of thing should be the BENCHMARK for our actions. Otherwise we get in to some pretty tricky ground requiring victims to do much much more than simply forgiving the offending party.
DM,
You beat me to the punch on your bible reference. That came to my mind too.
Mama to 3 Soaring Arrows,
Yeah… I think the verse you mentioned does most certainly have a place in this discussion! I believe it marks well one side … with the verses from Chapter 3 marking the other. It is my belief that we are discussing all that falls between these two Scriptures.
Miroslav sez:
>Excommunication at NH, in my experience it was only used as a last resort in situations where a congregant has chosen not to repent of an ongoing harmful "serious" sinful act. All the ones that I can remember had to do with sexual sin.<
Ah. Well, as long as Sloth and Gluttony were not a problem.
"Gluttony is not a secret vice."
~Orson Welles
David Porta, DDS,
yeah... my point exactly.
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