What type of love is that?
Ok readers, help me out here.
David Porta wrote a comment to an earlier post that got me thinking. In my response to him, I mentioned that I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the concept of a god who Scripture tells us is both "Our Father", loving, and 100% good... and the idea that he has knowingly created most people with the unavoidable eternal destiny of hell (not looking to argue this point, see Romans 9).
My question is this: "Does the Bible tell us that God is to be called Father by all of humanity or only those who have been redeemed?" I'm thinking that it is the latter as I remember John 8.
Read more of my thoughts!
It becomes even more clear to me that the God of the Bible is not quite as nice as what is preached from some Evangelical Churches here in the good ol' USA. No, He is quite different than what is so often suggested. What are we to make of a God who knowingly creates people who are destined to a life of pain followed by eternal hell and suffering? Romans 9 tells us we can't even ask such questions, to just be grateful we are among the chosen. I suppose that if we ARE among the chosen, and Christ is God... that is a very logical position to take for on what grounds can creations to question the creator.
All of this, I'm realizing more and more each day, points back to the cross. It is either a myth, or it is Truth. With that point more defined, I happen to believe that the Bible doesn't leave room for us to simply "make a decision for Christ." I think that particular version of the gospel, which I've heard preached more often than not, is a much nicer and palatable gospel than the one that is presented in the Bible. Instead, I think the Bible tells us clearly that some are chosen to believe, and others are chosen to have their hearts hardened and ears shut to the message. It is not so much our choice as it is HIS. He will either quicken us to faith and action, or He will not. And this choice is based on His foreknowledge... some of us he foreknew, others He did not (whatever that means).
Miroslav is left scratching his head again... in part wondering what he thinks of the cross, and also wondering what type of God is described by the Bible and how He could possibly be called LOVE...
Oh, one other thing. Tre' Cheesy but I won't let that stop me. On the way to work I heard this old glam rock song. Its spoke to me man. ;D
David Porta wrote a comment to an earlier post that got me thinking. In my response to him, I mentioned that I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the concept of a god who Scripture tells us is both "Our Father", loving, and 100% good... and the idea that he has knowingly created most people with the unavoidable eternal destiny of hell (not looking to argue this point, see Romans 9).
My question is this: "Does the Bible tell us that God is to be called Father by all of humanity or only those who have been redeemed?" I'm thinking that it is the latter as I remember John 8.
Read more of my thoughts!
It becomes even more clear to me that the God of the Bible is not quite as nice as what is preached from some Evangelical Churches here in the good ol' USA. No, He is quite different than what is so often suggested. What are we to make of a God who knowingly creates people who are destined to a life of pain followed by eternal hell and suffering? Romans 9 tells us we can't even ask such questions, to just be grateful we are among the chosen. I suppose that if we ARE among the chosen, and Christ is God... that is a very logical position to take for on what grounds can creations to question the creator.
All of this, I'm realizing more and more each day, points back to the cross. It is either a myth, or it is Truth. With that point more defined, I happen to believe that the Bible doesn't leave room for us to simply "make a decision for Christ." I think that particular version of the gospel, which I've heard preached more often than not, is a much nicer and palatable gospel than the one that is presented in the Bible. Instead, I think the Bible tells us clearly that some are chosen to believe, and others are chosen to have their hearts hardened and ears shut to the message. It is not so much our choice as it is HIS. He will either quicken us to faith and action, or He will not. And this choice is based on His foreknowledge... some of us he foreknew, others He did not (whatever that means).
Miroslav is left scratching his head again... in part wondering what he thinks of the cross, and also wondering what type of God is described by the Bible and how He could possibly be called LOVE...
Oh, one other thing. Tre' Cheesy but I won't let that stop me. On the way to work I heard this old glam rock song. Its spoke to me man. ;D
Something to Believe In - POISON
Will I see him on the tv
Preachin’ ’bout the promised land
He tells me to believe in jesus
And steals the money from my hand
Some say he was a good man
But lord I think he sinned, yeahTwenty-two years of mental tears
Cries a suicidal vietnam vet
Who fought a losing war on a foreign shore
To find his country didn’t want him back
Their bullets took his best friend in saigon
Our lawyers took his wife and kids, no regrets
In a time I don’t remember
In a war he can’t forget
He cried forgive me for what I’ve done there
Cause I never meant the things I did
Chorus:And give me something to believe in
If there’s a lord above
And give me something to believe in
Oh, lord arise
My best friend died a lonely man
In some palm springs hotel room
I got the call last christmas eve
And they told me the news
I tried all night not to break down and cry
As the tears rolled down my face
I felt so cold and empty
Like a lost soul out of place
And the mirror, mirror on the wall
Sees my smile it fades again
Chorus
Sometimes I wish to God I didn’t know now
The things I didn’t know then
Road you gotta take me home
I drive by the homeless sleeping on a cold dark street
Like bodies in an open grave
Underneath the broken old neon sign
That used to read "JESUS SAVES"
A mile away live the rich folks
And I see how they’re living it up
While the poor they eat from hand to mouth
The rich is drinkin’ from a golden cup
And it just makes me wonder
Why so many lose, so few win
You take the high road
And I’ll take the low road
Sometimes I wish to God I didn’t know now
The things I didn’t know then
And give me something to believe in
posted by Miroslav at 9:51 AM
15 Comments:
Miroslav,
I am finding your thoughts very intriquing. I am hesitant to put down my thoughts, especially as you are so adapt at it mine will pale in comparison. Your last question you posed does not really seem to be the question in your entire commentary. Does all of creation, redeemed and not, call God Our Father? I agree with you that John 8 appears to answer that question- the redeemed. For the inheritance only can be ours as we acknowledge it. But the bigger question I hear you asking has to do with a loving God and is the God of the Bible truly "loving"? Interesting question.
I would preface my thoughts with the statement that even though I have often been challenged with some of the questions you have raised, I have not had a difficult time accepting the answers I have found in scripture. This is because my experience with God has been so real and so powerful that I don't have a problem knowing that He is God and I can surrender to the idea that I will never have the capacity(here on earth) to fully grasp His thoughts and the concepts and precepts of His Word.
So, My question back to you would be,who defines what love looks like and feels like and how it is measured out? Does your young son really have any ability to understand that when you discipline him it is for his good? I know plenty of children who can't figure out why thier parents won't let them have all that they want when it is in the parents ability to give it. I believe that the human race as a whole has a faulty premise as they look at the world and the suffering that we see around us and in our own lives. We believe that somehow we are owed something of value and protection and blessing here on this earth. That since we were created or just came into being that gives us the right to be free from suffering and live in a world that brings us only pleasure.
I can only speak for myself but I can readily agree with scripture that says "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; Who can know it? (Jer. 17:9)The only good that I have experienced or participated in comes from God. Even so much of good that I do, if I am honest, flows from a selfish motivation.
Last thought- the idea that we are "predestined" for redeemption or "hell fire" is in my mine not a settled debate. I think the debate falls into the definition of predestination and that somehow man's response has nothing to do with it. Here I cannot agree with you. Scripture is too full of many references to the response of man affecting the outcome of his destiny. Here my lack of biblical study stunts my ability to give any resounding arguments.
A Woman of Faith
Miro,
Have ya ever read John Piper? He is a neato guy, cuz he is a 5 point calvinist and an evangelist and passionately in love with Christ. You would appreciate the way he is both a thinker and a feeler.
Here he seeks to answer The Problem of Pain, with a very interesting perspective, looking to the scriptures and to Jonathan Edwards for answers:
http://www.desiringgod.org/library/topics/suffering/god_and_evil.html
Miro said:
I mentioned that I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the concept of a god who Scripture tells us is both "Our Father", loving, and 100% good..
----
exactly! You can't wrap your mind around it because God is bigger and more awesome then you are.
The definition of good is 'GOD like' - not the other way around.
I commend your search. So many people know God-in-a-box. They can love and accept Him because they only know a small part of who He really is. Job and Solomon had similar searches. God thought that their searches were so important that 2 books are devoted to those searches. (Job and Ecclestiates)
wow. Great thoughts from everybody. Serious.
Lots of love though thanks to you all... I even MORE musing to do now! ;D
Blogger sez:
"I think the Bible tells us clearly that some are chosen to believe, and others are chosen to have their hearts hardened and ears shut to the message. It is not so much our choice as it is HIS. He will either quicken us to faith and action, or He will not. And this choice is based on His foreknowledge... some of us he foreknew, others He did not (whatever that means)."
John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
1 John 3:23
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.
We are commanded to believe. Belief is a "work." But whose work? God works belief in us. It is God's work. "The work of God"
Blogger sez:
"It is not so much our choice as it is HIS. He will either quicken us to faith and action, or He will not."
1 Timothy 2:1-6
I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.
KJV
God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
All.
God's choice not to quicken the perishing to faith?
Is that God's desire?
Man's choice to reject the quickening?
More often than not.
Blogger sez:
"others are chosen to have their hearts hardened and ears shut to the message"
So, it is by God our Saviour, Who will have all men to be saved, that these others are chosen to have their hearts hardened and ears shut to the message?
http://www.orlutheran.com/html/trelect.html
D. Porta,
Re: The link you recommended. In general I think its spot on. But here is a particular quote from it that is crazy. Many men who have deep intellectual and spiritual understanding of predestination have been bothered and perplexed (even driven to hopelessnses for a time) by the subject.:
"If the topic of predestination is leading or driving you in these directions [fatalism and hopelessness], this is proof positive that you do not understand predestination at all."
You list some key verses that support God's sovereignty, his "desire that all would be saved," and man's part in the process (free-will). I can't deny any of these things being supported in scripture, but neither are these paths of logic able to intersect apart from major distortion of one or all of the positions. Again, I will quote Charles Spurgeon who understood the reality of this fact, but remained steadfast in his faith. I, as of yet, have been unable to embrace my faith fully in light of these apparent contradictions.:
"The system of truth revealed in the Scriptures is not simply one straight line, but two; and no man will ever get a right view of the gospel until he knows how to look at the two lines at once. For instance, I read in one Book of the Bible, “The Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.” Yet I am taught, in another part of the same inspired Word, that “it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.” I see, in one place, God in providence presiding over all, and yet I see, and I cannot help seeing, that man acts as he pleases, and that God has left his actions, in a great measure, to his own free will. Now, if I were to declare that man was so free to act that there was no control of God over his actions, I should be driven very near to atheism; and if, on the other hand, I should declare that God so over rules all things that man is not free enough to be responsible, I should be driven at once into Antinomianism or fatalism. That God predestines, and yet that man is responsible, are two facts that few can see clearly. They are believed to be inconsistent and contradictory to each other. If, then, I find taught in one part of the Bible that everything is foreordained, that is true; and if I find, in another Scripture, that man is responsible for all his actions, that is true; and it is only my folly that leads me to imagine that these two truths can ever contradict each other. I do not believe they can ever be welded into one upon any earthly anvil, but they certainly shall be one in eternity. They are two lines that are so nearly parallel, that the human mind which pursues them farthest will never discover that they converge, but they do converge, and they will meet somewhere in eternity, close to the throne of God, whence all truth doth spring."
You then write: "So, it is by God our Saviour, Who will have all men to be saved, that these others are chosen to have their hearts hardened and ears shut to the message?" My answer, from what I read in Romans, is YES. And it is apparently God's perrogative, and how can we argue against it since we are the clay and He the potter? It can't get clearer to me what the Bible is saying there!
You also list some questions that reveal that you believe God's grace to be resistable. "...choice to reject the quickening..." This argument is ultimately addressed by the question: Is receiving the gospel an act? And if it is, does that make the gift any less free? By including an act of receiving in to the gospel, do we not challenge Galatians 2:8? ...
And round and round the debate and coversation goes as it has for hundreds of years. I don't pretend to imagine that we will settle the discussion here. :D
Instead, my hope is that I find my faith again in spite of these difficult things...
Thank you for your challenging thoughts and insights. Keep 'em comin' please!
Hi M,
Thanks for lunch, I had a great time chit-chatting with you. I was going to share this verse with you but you kept interrup...errr...uh...I'm kidding. I just plain forgot.
I know your Daddy speaks to how faith is a gift and I don't deny that...who can? But here is another verse to chew on:
Romans 10 (NIV)
17Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.
or
Romans 10 (NASB)
17So faith comes from (A)hearing, and hearing by (B)the word of Christ.
Somewhere in this insanely TITANIC blog, I read a comment advising you to stay in the Word anyway.
Kuh-POW!!
Samuel's Daddy
Blogger wrote: "But here is a particular quote from it that is crazy."
Yeah, I thought it sounded sort of arrogant. But I think he meant it as a comfort. (Where it sez, "...this is proof positive that you do not understand predestination at all.") Heh.
I personally go with the confession here:
http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=576
//
There is no election of wrath, or predestination to damnation. Scripture plainly reveals the truth that the love of God for the world of lost sinners is universal, that is, that it embraces all men without exception, that Christ has fully reconciled all men unto God, and that God earnestly desires to bring all men to faith, to preserve them therein, and thus to save them, as Scripture testifies, 1 Tim. 2:4: "God will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." No man is lost because God has predestined him to eternal damnation. -- Eternal election is a cause why the elect are brought to faith in time, Acts 13:48; but election is not a cause why men remain unbelievers when they hear the Word of God. The reason assigned by Scripture for this sad fact is that these men judge themselves unworthy of everlasting life, putting the Word of God from them and obstinately resisting the Holy Ghost, whose earnest will it is to bring also them to repentance and faith by means of the Word, Act 13:46; 7:51; Matt. 23:37.
//
//
while the universal will of grace is frustrated in the case of most men, Matt. 22:14; Luke 7:30, the election of grace attains its end with all whom it embraces, Rom. 8:28-30. Scripture, however, while distinguishing between the universal will of grace and the election of grace, does not place the two in opposition to each other. On the contrary, it teaches that the grace dealing with those who are lost is altogether earnest and fully efficacious for conversion. Blind reason indeed declares these two truths to be contradictory; but we impose silence on our reason. The seeming disharmony will disappear in the light of heaven, 1 Cor. 13:12.
//
Similar to Spugeon's two parallel lines that converge at infinity.
"Blind reason indeed declares these two truths to be contradictory; but we impose silence on our reason."
But only when it is blind. ;)
If Spurgeon believed there is room in the Truth for contradiction, then he had no business rejecting nonChristian religions, since the only distinction Christianity holds is that it comports with itself and with observed reality. If we're willing to swallow contradictions, we might as well embrace Hinduism and atheism and every other false belief.
Miroslav, your problem seems to stem from an incorrect interpretation of Romans 9. You said you aren't looking to argue that point, but which is more likely: that you've misinterpreted that passage (and maybe a few others about election), or that you've misinterpreted every passage that affirms God's love and fairness? Better to scrutinize a few doctrinal sticking points than to throw out the main and plain thrust of the Bible.
Regarding Romans 9, Paul was not saying,"Don't question that God causes this person but not that person to accept Christ." Paul was instead saying,"Don't question that God chooses to save those who accept Christ and not those who fulfil the law." This interpretation makes the most sense in the context of Paul responding to Jewish claims that salvation is based on heritage and works. Apply it throughout the passage and you'll see that it fits. See also
http://www.john15.net/arm/rom9.php
for an in-depth look.
Paradox: A seemingly contradictory statement that may nonetheless be true.
Though there is no room in the Truth for contradiction, there is ample evidence of paradox.
Dangerous Man,
I like the thoughts that you've shared, thanks! If I were to try to really boil down your suggestion, it seems to me that you are saying that God only gives to people what they want in the first place. He doesn't keep goodness from anybody who desires it.
I have such a hard time wrapping my mind around that! I'm not saying it isn't true. I just don't know.
Have the people who died throughout history who did not claim the name of Christ been given in Hell only what they would have chosen anyway had they been given the opportunity? I suppose that the Bible agrees with this... (thinking of the time Jesus explained why he was not willing to perform more resurections... can't remember the specific location atm). Just a tough pill to swallow for me right now.
A Woman of Faith,
Welcome to my blog! Thanks for your input!
You are right that my bigger question really centers around the type of God that the God of the Bible offers.
I think you really did a fabulous job summing up the situation. I couldn't agree with your thoughts more. Everything you wrote makes sense. The key to the whole thing though is this:
"This is because my experience with God has been so real and so powerful that I don't have a problem knowing that He is God and I can surrender to the idea that I will never have the capacity(here on earth) to fully grasp His thoughts and the concepts and precepts of His Word."
I have been there! I know that feeling and its a great place to be... imagine for a moment, though, that the unshakeable faith and knowledge you have in the reality of God happened to be shaken. If the gift of faith that you have received was just as quickly, and unexplainably taken from you. A scary place to be for sure... and that is where this leg of my journey started, though now I'm not walking with the fear I had at first. Now, more with anticipation for what the future holds... I do hold out HOPE for my faith to return.
Let me just say again for the record that I agree 100% that a God as magnificently powerful as is explained in the Bible owes us, His creation, no explanation for what He chooses to do. Neither do I expect that creations would ever be fully able to comprehend the ways of such a Creator.
I'm down with that line of thinking for sure! ;D
A Woman of Faith.... I would be curious to hear your feedback on a post that I will be entering soon. It is an email conversation I'm having with our current pastor, a man I love and respect. He recently sent an email to me that really really really nailed my current experience well. Look for it, k?
Thanks again!
George,
Word to yo' mom.
Mama to 3 Soaring Arrows,
I don't believe I HAVE read anything of his to date. I'm impressed by that article so far though. Thanks for sharing it! Have you read any of his books? Any recommendations?
http://www.desiringgod.org/library/topics/
suffering/god_and_evil.html
Arrows gma d,
Thank you for your kind words! Ecclisiastes has ALWAYS been my favorite book of the bible. And Job is definately ranked up there too. :D
Samuel's Daddy,
If my blog is TITANIC, then I just hit the iceburg! KAAPPOOW!! ;D
Yeah, good verses. Remember though that I do not deny that the Bible CLEARLY states that faith (that which you pointed out only comes through hearing the Word) is a requirement of salvation. But where does the faith come from? and how? Remember the time at lunch I was trying to pick your brain on this subject? I was trying to ask you if you thought anybody could actually CHOOSE to believe something?
David Porta,
Reading your references, I think that you and I actually agree more than disagree on the issues... but as you put it, I just happen to be applying "blind reason" to it the situation, at the moment. It hasn't always been this way.
x x
O
=_=
One point I do disagree with though is: "Eternal election is a cause why the elect are brought to faith in time, Acts 13:48; but election is not a cause why men remain unbelievers when they hear the Word of God." ... Unless there are instances where individuals can come to salvation apart from external election, than this really just seems to be a semantic game. Its like saying that electricity is what causes the light bulb to go on and thereby lights the pitch black room... but electricity is not what causes the darkness to exist. Sure, that is an accurate statement, but in my opinion misses the point. (of course, with that said, I'm the one that freely admits I don't know much right now.)
Jesse Hamm,
see anonymous. ;D And no disrespect intended Jesse, you obviously have found a way to reason through something that I can't at the moment.
I have to say that even after reading through the article you referred, I'm still left with my original interpretation of this particular scripture. I don't see how one get away from what seems to be such an obvioius point that is being made there in Romans 9. Seems quite clear to me that the author is telling us that it is God's perogative, and we are not to second guess Him because we are only clay.
Anonymous,
Great entry. I wish I could speak so powerfully with such few words. Instead, I make up for my lack of power with an onslaught of sentences hoping to put to sleep anybody who might put up a fight to my chatoic ramblings.
** Miroslav wipes sweat of keyboard from typing.... GOOD NIGHT! **
Miroslav, I have only read 2 of John Piper’s books. Desiring God is amazing. He calls the basic idea behind it Christian Hedonism, or God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him (apparently there are lots of us Christians out there that do not approve of this doctrine – but I for one LOVE it). It has an undertone of adventure and passion – similar in Wild at Heart or anything by C.S. Lewis in the way it makes your heart leap for the Lord. Only, it is more grounded in scripture than Wild at Heart, and more Calvinist or Reform than Lewis.
I went through a really dry season in the beginning of this year. I was so struck by God’s sovereignty that I went through a bit of depression in regard to others’ suffering (like Mr. D said, I was crying UNFAIR). I also began to internalize feelings of guilt over the fact that somehow, undeservedly, I have been “chosen” by this incredible God – that He has loved me like a little sweet daughter in a real and tangible relationship since I can remember (back to 3 years old) and that He has allowed many others to live pitiful lives of sadness, never even knowing His name. I also started thinking that I could think of many ways to run this place better than He was doing. It put me in a place where I just didn’t want to be around God, even though every cell in my body responded with a feeling that I was missing out on something.
Well, let me tell you, the Lord used Piper’s book When I Don’t Desire God: How to Fight for Joy to smack me upside the head with a great big joyscicle! I wondered how he could write a whole book on how to desire God when his whole philosophy (Calvinism) says that God’s the one in charge anyway. Guess its back to the paradox thing, cuz write it well he did. And he doesn’t discount God’s Sovereignty in the least and still packs a powerful punch in regard to my individual actions.
Life-changing stuff.
Miroslav replied: "Seems quite clear to me that the author [of Romans 9] is telling us that it is God's perogative, and we are not to second guess Him because we are only clay."
Certainly.
But God's prerogative to do what, precisely? To choose who will accept Christ, or to choose which approach (law-keeping or accepting Christ) will save?
In the Dec. 5 National Review in the "books, arts & manners" section, there is a fine book review by S.T. Karnick of "The Man Upstairs," a book by Eric Metaxas.
It got me thinking of the analogy of the magazine industry, that 80% of product is consigned to the dump, but the 20% that survive make the creation of magazines a worthwhile endeavor.
When I was a young brat, I complained more than a few times to my folks, as if it were a brilliant argument: "I never asked to be born!"
It's true. No-one ever consulted me.
Yes, God is all-knowing and all-powerful, but he wants us to love him freely. However it works, the world he created ends with Hell for most, and salvation for the elect. The query posed by Doubt: "How can a loving God create a creation that ends with Hell for most?"
Isn't it because he IS a loving God?
Q: "Why did God make me?"
A: "So Jesus could die for you and forgive your sins." (Lutheran answer.)
I believe that one of the pillars of Bhuddism goes like this: "Life is suffering."
Indeed, life is filled with pain and suffering. There is much wretchedness.
How can anyone bring a child into such a world? If a man knows that the child will inevitably come to suffering, how can he, in good conscience, father children?
Good, decent men know before procreating, that the kid will suffer. Responsible Christian dads know that most children will end in Hell. Yet they have kids, anyway. And God knows from the beginning, that most souls will end in Hell, yet he created.
If creating a creation that ends in Hell for most is incompatible with a loving God, isn't fatherhood incompatible with a loving dad?
Don't ask me. But I suspect that a lot of dads, including most Christian dads, did want kids. The motive? Love.
Mama to 3 Soaring Arrow,
Ok... Piper is now officially been added to "Miroslav's Need To Read List". Thanks for the tip.
Jesse Hamm,
Verses 14-18 make it pretty clear that is not the question at hand. It is very specifically a statement regarding: "18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden." The verses are discussing God's sovereignty, not Law vs Grace.
D.Porta, DDS,
You said: "If creating a creation that ends in Hell for most is incompatible with a loving God, isn't fatherhood incompatible with a loving dad?" - The point to your question is one of several reasons that the entire story of the God of the Bible is "broken" to me. It makes no sense when I try to make any complete application of it.
I do understand what you are trying to say with this question, but I think it isn't a fair one for one key reason: we humans are not ALL POWERFUL. And I believe if you were to press Christian fathers for justifiation for having children that could possibly end up in hell, they would give an answer of HOPE. They HOPE that their children find saving faith. But I don't think that God can use HOPE as an excuse. By the definitions given to us in Scripture, he is all seeing, all knowing, all powerful. He defines AllThatIs.
Post a Comment
<< Home